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themechabaryonyx789
Bowie Dave
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themechabaryonyx789
TheMechaBaryonyx789
Baryonyx
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Jan 3, 2014 19:42:43 GMT
It most likely would. The immature 9.5 metre long 2.6 ton Baryonyx would be more gracile than a 10 metre long Baryonyx (it would be further into maturity). But by half a metre? Do you really think it would weigh nearly half a ton more by half a metre+a slightly more robust build? Also please send me the link for the 2.6 ton estimate. Also when using the "most theropods" thing, if you are using a paper which I also have then that's for the average theropod. I am not sure if Baryonyx is either at that average or under it but is probably around that, but since there is no evidence of how much bulkier Baryonyx would be at adulthood it also strenghtens the fact that you have a slight bias towards Baryonyx since you have tries strenghtening it. Epanterias has a chance of being its own genus as well due to its temporal range. I agree on that since we're not getting a logical conclusion so soon, we don't have a base for it. Spinodontosaurus stated that the immature 9.5 metre long Baryonyx specimen was 2.6 tons on carnivora (Allosaurus VS Baryonyx). Also could you give me a link to this paper? I am sure that most theropods around 10 metres are 3 tons, likely including Baryonyx. Baryonyx was probably around average 'robustness' for theropod standards. I don't see how I have a bias, I am simply using possible logic since we don't have evidence. I assume that sub-adult Baryonyx would be more gracile than adult Baryonyx, same goes with the majority of theropods. I may find more reasons to strengthen Baryonyx's advantages than other dinosaurs in dinosaur debates but it is my favourite dinosaur, surely you do (or at least did) similar things with Tyrannosaurus (your favourite dinosaur)? 12 metre Epanterias actually shows signs of not being fully grown, while the 9 metre Allosaurus specimens are fully grown, which strengthens the fact that Epanterias might be its own genus. The 9.7 metre Allosaurus specimen was probably almost twice the weight of the 1-1.5 ton Big Al though. |
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Oct 25, 2013 17:12:58 GMT
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Post by Carnage on Dec 18, 2014 16:23:32 GMT
A 10 metre Baryonyx isn't gonna win that easily, it is not that much larger and it's pretty slender.
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 18, 2014 17:37:28 GMT
It's hard to say how much larger a 10 metre long specimen would be than a 9.5 metre long specimen, as we have no information on Spinosaurid growth rate. The square cube law makes it even more precarious.  The immature specimen of Baryonyx is indeed more gracile proportionally than the Allosaurus specimen, but I don't know how much of a difference that is going to make on this scale, both animals are going to be very strong individually due to their sheer muscle mass/size. |
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Post by Carnage on Dec 18, 2014 17:42:37 GMT
Its a half metre difference, it wont matter if its off because it can't be too off anyway, it would be like 3 tons. I also don't really see how Baryonyx is going to kill Allosaurus, at least most of the time, its bite is not that effective on something as large as Allosaurus. Allosaurus might as well just win.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:30:53 GMT
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2pac
I'm proceratosaurus and this name is temporary.
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Torvosaurus tanneri
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Post by 2pac on Dec 18, 2014 17:50:30 GMT
You can easily scale it up, just as carnage96 explained, it's a small difference. No animal will vary in an unexpected manner when increasing its length by 6%, as there is no allometric reason why it would gain a lot more mass to support its own weight.
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October 2013
themechabaryonyx789
TheMechaBaryonyx789
Baryonyx
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 18, 2014 18:23:44 GMT
You can easily scale it up, just as carnage96 explained, it's a small difference. No animal will vary in an unexpected manner when increasing its length by 6%, as there is no allometric reason why it would gain a lot more mass to support its own weight. You seem to have overlooked the square cube law, it would effect a larger animal like Baryonyx more as it grew in length, 0.5 metres would make more of a difference at its size than of a much smaller animal. I don't really see the point of speculating adult size estimates for the animal in this fight, scaling will not provide an accurate estimate as the specimen is immature, an adult (or more mature specimen) would almost certainly have different proportions and we have no data on Spinoaurid growth rate and even that wouldn't allow us to create accurate estimates. Just use the 9.5 metre long immature specimen and we won't have these complications. |
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Oct 13, 2016 21:30:53 GMT
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2pac
I'm proceratosaurus and this name is temporary.
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December 2014
proceratosaurus
Torvosaurus tanneri
Bald eagle
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Post by 2pac on Dec 18, 2014 18:35:18 GMT
Using the square cube law as the base for scaling renders 3 tons also, and even if we take allometry into account, it likely wasn't going beyond that. The problem here is that no animal seems to show the effects of allometry while getting 6% larger dimensionally from an immature state, as it can actually be observed in extant animals, no matter the size. Animals only change in proportions as they grow larger because of the square cube law, as you already know, as they need to possess more muscle proportionately to support their own mass, in which a higher percentage of muscle is used, which is another reason why the size of animals is overall limited. The adult will have different proportions, but the fact its length is only 6% greater, and its mass is only 20% larger. Although we do not have growth rate and allometric scaling data on those animals, the same can be said for most extinct theropods. This is not exclusive of Baryonyx, and it doesn't stop us from speculating the size of a ~6% longer specimen.
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Monolophosaurus
My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
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May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
May 2014
captainjimmbob
Monolophosaurus
House Cat
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Dec 26, 2014 3:41:05 GMT
Baryonyx destroys Allosaurus fragilis.
Epanterias is in my opinion it's own genus, like Saurophaganax.
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
Baryonyx
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 26, 2014 10:59:46 GMT
Using these speculated adult estimates for Baryonyx it would amost certainly win due to its signiicant size/strength advantage.
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2pac
I'm proceratosaurus and this name is temporary.
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proceratosaurus
Torvosaurus tanneri
Bald eagle
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Post by 2pac on Dec 31, 2014 23:00:29 GMT
Please don't bring Epanterias into this...
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My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
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May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
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captainjimmbob
Monolophosaurus
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Jan 1, 2015 16:12:13 GMT
Everyone does for some reason. I guess it is the Allosaurus' fans last attempt to get their favorite to win. Epanterias is probably its own genus. I cannot imagine it is a synonym of Allosaurus fragilis, if it is a synonym, it would most likely have its own species, Allosaurus amplexus.
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Post by thesporerex on Jan 2, 2015 10:23:33 GMT
I vote Allosaurus. Saying that Baryonyx would win because its an immature specimen and we officially don't know the size of the average is stupid especially when we literally have no idea about the adult size. Which means we should base it on current sized specimens. Its what we did with Eocarcharia which means it is what we do here. In that case Allosaurus wins.
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themechabaryonyx789
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Jan 2, 2015 12:02:22 GMT
I vote Allosaurus. Saying that Baryonyx would win because its an immature specimen and we officially don't know the size of the average is stupid especially when we literally have no idea about the adult size. Which means we should base it on current sized specimens. Its what we did with Eocarcharia which means it is what we do here. In that case Allosaurus wins. Which is exactly what I am trying to get across. |
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May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Jan 2, 2015 16:01:20 GMT
Actually, even as an immature specimen, I have heard its size could reach 3 tons. That is more than the largest definite Allosaurus ever found, I would still give this battle to Baryonyx.
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Feb 24, 2019 19:15:10 GMT
415
themechabaryonyx789
Bowie Dave
4,993
October 2013
themechabaryonyx789
TheMechaBaryonyx789
Baryonyx
Tings
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Jan 2, 2015 16:45:59 GMT
Actually, even as an immature specimen, I have heard its size could reach 3 tons. That is more than the largest definite Allosaurus ever found, I would still give this battle to Baryonyx. Where did you get estimate that from? The immature specimen we have found was roughly 2.5+ tons, there is no way of saying how large it would have to be until it stopped being immature and became an adult. Also the largest 'definite' specimen of Allosaurus fragilis was somewhere over 3 tons in weight and 9.7 metres in length. However, the average Allosaurus specimen would be around 2+ tons and 8.5-9 metres in length, which is smaller than the Baryonyx specimen found. However, I would favour Allosaurus against the immature Baryonyx most of the time due to its superior weaponry and there not being much size difference. |
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