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{"image":"https://66.media.tumblr.com/bec0264f6aea4d9a0137ba0694abea69/tumblr_mmae6u05vY1relrdqo1_1280.jpg","color":"000000"}
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Example 1
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Post by Theropod on Jun 5, 2014 19:45:27 GMT
spinosaurus1The largest Saltwater Crocodile was easily well over a ton. And height is no advantage really, you're right.
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Monolophosaurus
My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
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captainjimmbob
Monolophosaurus
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Jun 5, 2014 21:36:35 GMT
i never referred to allosaurus living with tyrannosaurus. and your the one who said a tyrannosaurus can handle a spinosaurus even though its impossible to know for sure other then anatomical comparisons and adaptions. other then that, what on earth made you say a tyrannosaurus could handle a spinosaurus? weight is a major contributor when it comes to fighting multiple opponents, and in this case, tyrannosaurus outweighs them all. we also don't have any strong evidence of allosaurs pack hunting. such evidence could also be viewed as gregarious behavior and would most likely not be as coordinate or planned out like a mammalian pack. your reasoning about tyrannosaurus not being able to snap up the carnosaur is questionable. the allosaurs are not running in straight lines. they are coming in at close quarters areas that can allow a tyrannosaurus to attack. the allosaurs are maneuvering and theirs no doubt their more agile, but think about it. their going to attack it at some point. which is why the tyrannosaurs would have the capability to kill one, kill the other if they still didn't distinguish the attack, and the remaining one would most likely flee. and trampling is actually a common spectical veiwed by many heavy weight bonvids, ungulates, etc utilize trampling over smaller adversaries, which can be applicable to tyrannosaurus how out weigh these creature 4 fold. your analogy is again, very problematic. anacondas never encountered crocodiles and absolutely none at 20 ft in length. just smaller species of speckled caiman. you seem to be relying on length as the only dimension . the largest salt water crocodiles can weigh up to 1000 kg. over 4 times that of the largest anaconda. height are not contributing factors for fighting for either creatures, a 25 foot anaconda is no where near the weight of a 25 ft allosaurus, smaller creatures capabilities are not compatible to that of ones at much larger scale, and their adaptions for semiaquatic life are no where near compatible to a fully terrestrial tyrannosaurus and allosaurus. there i have, yet again, corrected what you had said. i'm finished Once again, i never said anacondas and crocs lived together. Thanks for proving that crocs are much larger in every way, but they still would lose to a group of anacondas. And if im right, you or someone said that Tyrannosaurus is 4 times larger than Allosaurus. Therefore, wouldnt a croc vs anoconda be a proportionatally similar analogy? Even if 3 anacondas and this croc were on land, the anacondas would still win wouldnt they? Yes. And if im right, dosnt just about everyone here agree a Tyrannosaurus could handle a Spinosaurus? In peoples imagination, animals dont have to live together to fight, Mr. Fact. Still you havnt seen that 3 Allosaurus each weigh 2.5 tons. Combined thats more than 7 tons. 7.5, to be exact. What does Allosaurus pack hunting have to do wiht anything? You have to plan out how to run away? Wow, i never realized that. Must need some focus to run (sarcasm). My reasoning for Tyrannosaurus not being able to snap up an Allosaurus is that Allosaurus is faster. Who says Allosaurus could not run in straight lines away from the Tyrannosaurus? Anyway, like you guys are saying, if these dinosaurs are so dumb, how could Tyrannosaurus think to attack these animals in such a well planned out way? Im not going to use that as an argument, because these animals are not that dumb. Like Rexog90 said, one simply distracts the tyrant, and the others attack vulnerable points. The others jump on him. Even if the two Allosaurus on top of him are combined only 5 tons, that is still plenty enough to knock him down. Then once hes (or she) down, its kinda hard to get up when you have 5 tons sitting on you and slowly eating you. And please tell me you did not say there is no evidence for pack hunting in Allosaurus. We found 33 Allosaurus of different sizes in a huge group all together in one place. You might say predator trap, but there were no herbivores around. That cant be a coincidence. And with all the large dinosaurs around with Allosaurus, it would almost have to be a pack hunter to bring down those creatures. They at least hunted in family packs. Dinosaurs are smart enough to raise their offspring. Thats maybe 4-5 Allosaurus in a pack. You could also say Velociraptor wasnt a pack hunter because there is no evidence for that either. More likely than not, Allosaurus was probably a pack hunter. Now IM finished. |
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Jun 6, 2014 20:28:11 GMT
i never referred to allosaurus living with tyrannosaurus. and your the one who said a tyrannosaurus can handle a spinosaurus even though its impossible to know for sure other then anatomical comparisons and adaptions. other then that, what on earth made you say a tyrannosaurus could handle a spinosaurus? weight is a major contributor when it comes to fighting multiple opponents, and in this case, tyrannosaurus outweighs them all. we also don't have any strong evidence of allosaurs pack hunting. such evidence could also be viewed as gregarious behavior and would most likely not be as coordinate or planned out like a mammalian pack. your reasoning about tyrannosaurus not being able to snap up the carnosaur is questionable. the allosaurs are not running in straight lines. they are coming in at close quarters areas that can allow a tyrannosaurus to attack. the allosaurs are maneuvering and theirs no doubt their more agile, but think about it. their going to attack it at some point. which is why the tyrannosaurs would have the capability to kill one, kill the other if they still didn't distinguish the attack, and the remaining one would most likely flee. and trampling is actually a common spectical veiwed by many heavy weight bonvids, ungulates, etc utilize trampling over smaller adversaries, which can be applicable to tyrannosaurus how out weigh these creature 4 fold. your analogy is again, very problematic. anacondas never encountered crocodiles and absolutely none at 20 ft in length. just smaller species of speckled caiman. you seem to be relying on length as the only dimension . the largest salt water crocodiles can weigh up to 1000 kg. over 4 times that of the largest anaconda. height are not contributing factors for fighting for either creatures, a 25 foot anaconda is no where near the weight of a 25 ft allosaurus, smaller creatures capabilities are not compatible to that of ones at much larger scale, and their adaptions for semiaquatic life are no where near compatible to a fully terrestrial tyrannosaurus and allosaurus. there i have, yet again, corrected what you had said. i'm finished Once again, i never said anacondas and crocs lived together. Thanks for proving that crocs are much larger in every way, but they still would lose to a group of anacondas. And if im right, you or someone said that Tyrannosaurus is 4 times larger than Allosaurus. Therefore, wouldnt a croc vs anoconda be a proportionatally similar analogy? Even if 3 anacondas and this croc were on land, the anacondas would still win wouldnt they? Yes. And if im right, dosnt just about everyone here agree a Tyrannosaurus could handle a Spinosaurus? In peoples imagination, animals dont have to live together to fight, Mr. Fact. Still you havnt seen that 3 Allosaurus each weigh 2.5 tons. Combined thats more than 7 tons. 7.5, to be exact. What does Allosaurus pack hunting have to do wiht anything? You have to plan out how to run away? Wow, i never realized that. Must need some focus to run (sarcasm). My reasoning for Tyrannosaurus not being able to snap up an Allosaurus is that Allosaurus is faster. Who says Allosaurus could not run in straight lines away from the Tyrannosaurus? Anyway, like you guys are saying, if these dinosaurs are so dumb, how could Tyrannosaurus think to attack these animals in such a well planned out way? Im not going to use that as an argument, because these animals are not that dumb. Like Rexog90 said, one simply distracts the tyrant, and the others attack vulnerable points. The others jump on him. Even if the two Allosaurus on top of him are combined only 5 tons, that is still plenty enough to knock him down. Then once hes (or she) down, its kinda hard to get up when you have 5 tons sitting on you and slowly eating you. And please tell me you did not say there is no evidence for pack hunting in Allosaurus. We found 33 Allosaurus of different sizes in a huge group all together in one place. You might say predator trap, but there were no herbivores around. That cant be a coincidence. And with all the large dinosaurs around with Allosaurus, it would almost have to be a pack hunter to bring down those creatures. They at least hunted in family packs. Dinosaurs are smart enough to raise their offspring. Thats maybe 4-5 Allosaurus in a pack. You could also say Velociraptor wasnt a pack hunter because there is no evidence for that either. More likely than not, Allosaurus was probably a pack hunter. Now IM finished. |
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#00be0f
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Sept 19, 2022 0:50:28 GMT
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{"image":"https://66.media.tumblr.com/bec0264f6aea4d9a0137ba0694abea69/tumblr_mmae6u05vY1relrdqo1_1280.jpg","color":"000000"}
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Example 1
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Post by Theropod on Jun 6, 2014 21:27:35 GMT
I gotta note that saying something cannot happen/exist because it cannot be proven true is fallacious.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Jun 6, 2014 22:34:18 GMT
No, not everyone here thinks tyrannosaurus can win the majority with spinosaurus. As matter of fact, it seems that the majority of the people here agrees with vice versa for various reasons. But this is not the thread for this debate. So lets not spam it with a completly different topic.
And Wow, you think I'm demeaning theropods intelligence
1. The peoportions are not the same due to the square cubic law. Smaller animals have much greater capabilities proportionately campared to larger animals. And theres still a grave difference in psychology. Neither an anaconda or a crocodile is good comparisons. And not only are anacondas solitary hunters ( never hunted in packs of 3) the dimensioning of the two are still problamatic. Both animals are semi aquatic, and For serpents, especially constrictors, length is actually a favorable advantage for them, while it means jack for two terrestrial theropods.
2. In fights, what is mostly used to face opponents is instincts. Intelligence has little roll to offer with most animal. And motherly care is not a sign of intelegence. It's happens to be more so with maturnal instincts. An involuntary and inherited responce and action that allows animals to take care young to better themselfs and their species for prosperity.
3. Your suggestions on the way allosaurs hunted is pure assumption. Theres absolutly no strong evidence suggesting they coordinated as well as mammals as they hunted. Cat scans of the brain case shows inhance areas of the brain that are more devoted to sight and smell. The proportions of the brain size and the cerebral cortex is not compatible to pack hunting mammalian species. This does not mean dinosaurs are stupid by all means.Although, the brain is a poorly understand organ that holds many surprises, it is still quite obvious it's not going to be operating at a rate similar to canines, pantharines, etc
4. As for the allosaurus pack, it can be group hunting behavior, but as I suggested before, it could just as well be evidence of gregarious behavior, similar to say, komodo dragons. They don't plan out attacks together, yet they still come together to kill animals up to 10 times their size. Even crocodiles group together in high consentrations, but they don't cooperatively hunt. Please not that I'm not deducting the allosaurus pack hunting theory, but letting you know it's not a proven fact. Its possible, but their are also plenty other explanations on the group.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Jun 6, 2014 22:37:08 GMT
I apologise for either misspellings or wrong choices of words( ex when I spelled proportions wrong or said psychology even though I meant physiology) typing on an I phone sucks
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#00be0f
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Sept 19, 2022 0:50:28 GMT
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October 2013
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Genyodectes
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{"image":"https://66.media.tumblr.com/bec0264f6aea4d9a0137ba0694abea69/tumblr_mmae6u05vY1relrdqo1_1280.jpg","color":"000000"}
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Example 1
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Post by Theropod on Jun 7, 2014 0:06:34 GMT
The peoportions are not the same due to the square cubic law. Smaller animals have much greater capabilities proportionately campared to larger animals. Yes, you're right, this is all covered here (hyperlink). |
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Monolophosaurus
My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
1,094
May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
May 2014
captainjimmbob
Monolophosaurus
House Cat
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Jun 7, 2014 16:26:50 GMT
No, not everyone here thinks tyrannosaurus can win the majority with spinosaurus. As matter of fact, it seems that the majority of the people here agrees with vice versa for various reasons. But this is not the thread for this debate. So lets not spam it with a completly different topic. And Wow, you think I'm demeaning theropods intelligence 1. The peoportions are not the same due to the square cubic law. Smaller animals have much greater capabilities proportionately campared to larger animals. And theres still a grave difference in psychology. Neither an anaconda or a crocodile is good comparisons. And not only are anacondas solitary hunters ( never hunted in packs of 3) the dimensioning of the two are still problamatic. Both animals are semi aquatic, and For serpents, especially constrictors, length is actually a favorable advantage for them, while it means jack for two terrestrial theropods. 2. In fights, what is mostly used to face opponents is instincts. Intelligence has little roll to offer with most animal. And motherly care is not a sign of intelegence. It's happens to be more so with maturnal instincts. An involuntary and inherited responce and action that allows animals to take care young to better themselfs and their species for prosperity. 3. Your suggestions on the way allosaurs hunted is pure assumption. Theres absolutly no strong evidence suggesting they coordinated as well as mammals as they hunted. Cat scans of the brain case shows inhance areas of the brain that are more devoted to sight and smell. The proportions of the brain size and the cerebral cortex is not compatible to pack hunting mammalian species. This does not mean dinosaurs are stupid by all means.Although, the brain is a poorly understand organ that holds many surprises, it is still quite obvious it's not going to be operating at a rate similar to canines, pantharines, etc 4. As for the allosaurus pack, it can be group hunting behavior, but as I suggested before, it could just as well be evidence of gregarious behavior, similar to say, komodo dragons. They don't plan out attacks together, yet they still come together to kill animals up to 10 times their size. Even crocodiles group together in high consentrations, but they don't cooperatively hunt. Please not that I'm not deducting the allosaurus pack hunting theory, but letting you know it's not a proven fact. Its possible, but their are also plenty other explanations on the group. You know what? I give up. I still believe Allosaurus would win, but im absolutely tired of this argument. Lets agree to disagree, and move on. This argument has been going for like 4 or 5 days now, and i admit defeat. |
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jurassicjohn
Yutyrannus
im the next spielberg dont believe me, good
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im the next spielberg dont believe me, good
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Post by jurassicjohn on Aug 2, 2014 6:57:02 GMT
Since the trex is very heavy and will take a second to turn and defend itself the allosaurus will have a pretty easy win if they sneak up and attack the trex from the sides biting it in the throat or something.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Aug 3, 2014 23:00:02 GMT
any theropod can create tighter turns by changing its rotational inertia. so tyrannosaurus isn't that hindered o be incapable to catch an allosaurus, even more so with three since there all in close proximity of the tyrannosaur. the allosaurs being able to attack sides is a possibility. but the neck is a big fat no- no. that's the ends to a mouth that possesses a bite force up to 3 times larger then the very attackers.
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mrirongolem27
Yutyrannus
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Post by mrirongolem27 on Aug 14, 2014 2:49:20 GMT
Many recent sources (a few of them being National Geographic, just in case you were wondering) I have suggest that Allosaurus fragillis is commonly 35-40 feet long, 3 tons, while T. Rex is 36-44, 7 tons. The size difference is pretty inconspicuous, but Allosaurus can run faster than T. Rex. Take a look at this following picture  Sure, Allosaurus might be smaller, but this is like 3 teens vs. young adult. The young adult can't win (unless he's some crazy martial art expert, but that's beside the point. Dinosaurs didn't have martial arts.). |
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mrirongolem27
Yutyrannus
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Post by mrirongolem27 on Aug 15, 2014 16:25:16 GMT
I personally don't see how a trio of ~2 ton predators could kill one ~7-8 ton predator. It would be too risky for the Allosaurids, as losing even one member could prove fatal to the other members of the group. They could potentially outflank the Tyrannosaurus, but this could prove to be very difficult, especially when the opponent is much larger. Intelligence is also not really a factor for irrational predators such as these. It's not like they're going to use their fighting tactics for killing sauropods to try and kill another theropod. This isn't just a bunch of Utahraptors we're talking about. These are full-grown Allosauruses! Yes i said that. Deinonychus lived in the same place and time period as Utahraptor (120 MYA in western North America)......... And since when does Allosaurus live with a Tyrannosaurus? I never said Spinosaurus and Tyrannosaurus lived together, i just said Tyrannosaurus would win. Croc size: 20 feet. Great white: 25 feet. Weight isnt the only thing that matters. Allosaurus fragilis is UP TO 32 feet long, 2.5 tons. Tyrannosaurus rex is UP TO 40 feet long, 7 tons. Speed and maneuverability are two different things, but they work together, a fast animal is usually pretty agile and an agile animal is usually pretty fast. And it might not be very fast, but its still fucking faster than a Tyrannosaurus. So no, a Tyrannosaurus could not snap up an Allosaurus as its running, and certainly not trample it. The proportions is pretty similar isnt it? 20 to 25 feet, vs 32 to 40 feet? Thats not the same but thats close enough. Heres another analogy i guess. 3, 18 foot anocondas vs a croc. Thats better in terms of size. And, the anocondas would win. So there, just disproved most of what you said for you. Wait im not finished. They might be different in length and weight, but in height they are pretty close. I do believe the Tyrannosaurus would LOSE this fight, and thats my opinion. Now im finished. Still kinda wierd that im rooting for Allosaurus, even though i absolutely love Tyrannosaurus. Just no. Great whites don't grow 25 feet long. Record: 20 feet Female avg: 15-16 feet Male avg: 11-13 feet Saltwater crocs grow longer Record: 23+ feet Female avg: ? feet Male avg: 17 feet |
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My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
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May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Aug 15, 2014 19:26:29 GMT
I personally don't see how a trio of ~2 ton predators could kill one ~7-8 ton predator. It would be too risky for the Allosaurids, as losing even one member could prove fatal to the other members of the group. They could potentially outflank the Tyrannosaurus, but this could prove to be very difficult, especially when the opponent is much larger. Intelligence is also not really a factor for irrational predators such as these. It's not like they're going to use their fighting tactics for killing sauropods to try and kill another theropod. This isn't just a bunch of Utahraptors we're talking about. These are full-grown Allosauruses! Yes i said that. Deinonychus lived in the same place and time period as Utahraptor (120 MYA in western North America)......... And since when does Allosaurus live with a Tyrannosaurus? I never said Spinosaurus and Tyrannosaurus lived together, i just said Tyrannosaurus would win. Croc size: 20 feet. Great white: 25 feet. Weight isnt the only thing that matters. Allosaurus fragilis is UP TO 32 feet long, 2.5 tons. Tyrannosaurus rex is UP TO 40 feet long, 7 tons. Speed and maneuverability are two different things, but they work together, a fast animal is usually pretty agile and an agile animal is usually pretty fast. And it might not be very fast, but its still fucking faster than a Tyrannosaurus. So no, a Tyrannosaurus could not snap up an Allosaurus as its running, and certainly not trample it. The proportions is pretty similar isnt it? 20 to 25 feet, vs 32 to 40 feet? Thats not the same but thats close enough. Heres another analogy i guess. 3, 18 foot anocondas vs a croc. Thats better in terms of size. And, the anocondas would win. So there, just disproved most of what you said for you. Wait im not finished. They might be different in length and weight, but in height they are pretty close. I do believe the Tyrannosaurus would LOSE this fight, and thats my opinion. Now im finished. Still kinda wierd that im rooting for Allosaurus, even though i absolutely love Tyrannosaurus. Just no. Great whites don't grow 25 feet long. Record: 20 feet Female avg: 15-16 feet Male avg: 11-13 feet Saltwater crocs grow longer Record: 23+ feet Female avg: ? feet Male avg: 17 feet There was one estimated to be 23 feet, and the largest definite specimen was 21.5. And there have been many accounts of sharks larger than that, some Great Whites caught were rumored to reach up to 30 feet, although these are usually just rumors or mistakes. |
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mrirongolem27
Yutyrannus
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Post by mrirongolem27 on Aug 15, 2014 20:19:41 GMT
Still, record saltwater crocs and great whites are about as big as each other. that have been verified. Your argument doesn't hold much water.
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#00be0f
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Sept 19, 2022 0:50:28 GMT
1,130
Theropod
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October 2013
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Genyodectes
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{"image":"https://66.media.tumblr.com/bec0264f6aea4d9a0137ba0694abea69/tumblr_mmae6u05vY1relrdqo1_1280.jpg","color":"000000"}
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Example 1
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Post by Theropod on Aug 15, 2014 20:40:58 GMT
Neither is any of your arguments for Allosaurus fragilis here.
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