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My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Oct 10, 2014 23:44:01 GMT
Seems like new estimates put Spinosaurus at quite the disadvantage. Changing my vote back to Tyrannosaurus.
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Post by Theropod on Oct 11, 2014 0:10:51 GMT
Well, it could have been a bit larger, but even the possible 9 tons wouldn't be that considerable in my opinion.
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Oct 11, 2014 8:15:44 GMT
Could you provide some links to the new estimates?
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Post by Theropod on Oct 11, 2014 15:54:01 GMT
It's said in Ibrahim et. al., 2014, I can't seem to find the link.
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ornitholestes
Yutyrannus
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Post by ornitholestes on Oct 12, 2014 10:27:40 GMT
It's said in Ibrahim et. al., 2014, I can't seem to find the link. That’s because it is not said in Ibrahim et al. 2014, its an unofficial estimate we don’t know the method of (my guess is that there is no proper method, otherwise it would have made it into the paper).
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Post by Theropod on Oct 12, 2014 11:56:49 GMT
It's said in Ibrahim et. al., 2014, I can't seem to find the link. That’s because it is not said in Ibrahim et al. 2014, its an unofficial estimate we don’t know the method of (my guess is that there is no proper method, otherwise it would have made it into the paper). Didn't someone on CF say it was mentioned on there? I didn't read the papers yet, so I just assumed it was there.
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ornitholestes
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Post by ornitholestes on Oct 12, 2014 15:41:11 GMT
I did read the paper (it’s two pages long!), and I assure you, it’s not there. The only remark they make about its size is that being over 15m long, it was the longest theropod. Regarding whether the estimate is valid, I think if they had actually made proper weight estimate, it would have probably been included along with the lenght, so I doubt they actually did. Or perhaps they did, but considered other giant theropods even lighter. I’ve already posted two sources for even volumetric estimates of FMNH PR 2081 coming out at slightly above and slightly below 6t respectively; Paul 2011 and Stevens et al., cited in Stevens et al. 2008. And what if they didn’t make any estimate and 6-7t was just a guess? References:Paul, Gregory S.: Tyrannosaurus, the Lean Killing Machine. www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?root=16371 Accessed 12.10.2014 Stevens, Kent A.; Larson, Peter; Wills, Eric D.; Anderson, Art: Rex, sit: Digital Modeling of Tyrannosaurus rex at Rest. In: Larson, Peter; Carpenter, Kenneth: Tyrannosaurus rex the Tyrant King. Bloomington (2008); pp. 193-204
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Oct 15, 2014 21:00:52 GMT
might I add that when scaling MSNM v4047's humerus and comparing it to NMC 41582, it actually came out SMALLER! this would suggest that NMC 41582 would of been a larger individual then msnm v4047. if the scaling is correct, were looking at a creature that can possibly exceed 16-17 meters in length. good'ol spiny might still hold that record for the largest theropod yet discovered.
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ornitholestes
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Post by ornitholestes on Oct 16, 2014 17:16:39 GMT
I wouldn’t put too much confidence in that. As I wrote elsewhere, broly’s work is good. But based on MSNM v4047 being 77-96% the linear dimensions of the Baryonyx holotype (based on Baryonyx’ skull lenght being between 90 and 100cm this→ and my own skull restoration), the former’s humerus would have to be 85.5-94.7cm or 82.0-90.7cm in lenght (depending on whether you trust the measurement taken by Charig & Milner or the one by Sereno et al. the figures used in the next paragraph being greatest preserved lenght). NMC 41582 definitely differs from Baryonyx in proportions→, being longer and anteroposteriorly deeper in proportion to its mediolateral width, so we cannot really be sure that it is Spinosaurus to begin with (although I personally find it likely, more likely than that it’s a sauropod at any rate, and being a theropod, a spinosaur becomes the most probable suspect). Based on my scaling it would be about 81.8cm long. So keep in mind the skeletal you are referring to is based on a relatively superficial description of the new remains and abbreviated documentation of the methods only, and will probably be subject to revision once they get described in detail. For example, I could imagine the humerus in the skeletal he used as a reference was quite far from References:Charig, Alan J.; Milner, Angela C.: Baryonyx walkeri, a fish-eating dinosaur from the Wealden of Surrey. Bulletin of the Natural History Museum, London (Geology), Vol. 53 (1997); 1; pp. 11-70 Sereno, Paul C.; Beck, Allison L.; Dutheil, Didier B.; Gado, Boubacar; Larsson, Hans C. E.; Lyon, Gabrielle H.; Marcot, Jonathan D.; Rauhut, Oliver W. M.; Sadleir, Rudyard W.; Sidor, Christian A.; Varricchio, David D.; Wilson, Gregory P.; Wilson, Jeffrey A. (WTF? That paper is less than 5 pages long!): A Long-Snouted Predatory Dinosaur from Africa and the Evolution of Spinosaurids. Science, Vol. 282 (1998); No. 5392; pp. 1298-1302 www.deviantart.com/art/Spinosaurus-aegyptiacus-skeletal-reconstructions-483433951
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Post by thesporerex on Nov 7, 2014 22:34:08 GMT
An unofficial estimate puts Spinosaurus at 7 tonnes. No in the paper but actually said vocally by Paleontologists. A monograph is coming out which will detail the estimates and methods so we shall wait for that.
Though this new study makes me switch sides. T. rex fuckin' curb stomps Spinosaurus.
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Post by Theropod on Nov 28, 2014 14:49:41 GMT
Quoted from Maganuco;
I can say that the body mass estimate for the reconstructed adult Spinosaurus is between 6 and 7 tons. It was written and discussed in the first version of the manuscript, but not included in the very trimmed final version. It will be included in the next more detailed papers.
The old reconstruction was less accurate. We did not know the new skeleton and its proportions at that time (2005), so we were forced to include in our reconstruction many elements from Suchomimus and Baryonyx just to have an idea of the size of Spinosaurus. In the 2005 reconstruction the body was slightly bigger respect to the head, and the legs - above all the thighs - were way bigger than now. I hope we will have more material for the next reconstruction, but I think that the size and proportions will not change too much. The important thing is that the adults of Spinosaurus attained a considerable size, but they were not heavier than tyrannosaurs and large charcarodontosaurids (based on my observations on the specimens I would say that the largest specimens of Tyrannosaurus was heavier than our reconstruction of the adult Spinosaurus).
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Monolophosaurus
My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
1,094
May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
May 2014
captainjimmbob
Monolophosaurus
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Nov 28, 2014 15:29:46 GMT
Yeah, these new estimates give the favor to a definite Tyrannosaurus victory.
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KetchupOnIce
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Post by KetchupOnIce on Dec 11, 2014 5:12:36 GMT
Tyrannosaurus wins simply because it was built to. Spinosaurus was a natural fisher, none of the weapons it had were built for combat, since its rivals (Carcharodontosaurus and Bahariasaurus) didn't go for the same animals. Tyrannosaurus was the smartest and one of the strongest giant theropods ever, Tyrannosaurus wins 75% of the time. Spinosaurus only wins sometimes because of the sheer size.
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Post by Theropod on Dec 11, 2014 13:52:33 GMT
How was it built to fight an animal that did not coexist with it?Many extant animals actually are exclusive hunters of a species, yet they're all built for combat. Predators must be built for combat, as they will also have to deal with intraspecific competition.Do they even need to? Intraspecific competition is very likely. Plus, even when animals do not hunt the same prey, they actually do fight eachother on a certain basis.Any evidence on this? As far as I am aware, there isn't anything proving this is either right or wrong. Volumetric brain data isn't enough to deduce an animal's intelligence 100% accurately. Moreover, intelligence is completely irrelevant here.It wasn't actually that big, Maganuco's upper estimate is actually almost one ton and a half smaller than FMNH PR 2081.
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Feb 24, 2019 19:15:10 GMT
415
themechabaryonyx789
Bowie Dave
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themechabaryonyx789
TheMechaBaryonyx789
Baryonyx
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 14, 2014 22:48:35 GMT
I am really quite lost on the whole debate about Spinosaurus' size. I'm going to look up Maganuco's article and try and get my head round it.
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