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Post by ornitholestes on Aug 2, 2014 21:44:59 GMT
Do any of you guys know all yesterdays? There’s actually a chapter in there dealing with this subject, using depictions of future paleoartists depicting extant animals with various states of inaccuracies, including some pointing out the mistakes we might be making today (for example the furred iguana, shrinkwrapped horse and cat, naked, venomous baboon…).
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SrSpinelli
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Post by SrSpinelli on Dec 29, 2014 1:56:50 GMT
Spinosaurus being the strongest carnivore IS the worst theory
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 29, 2014 11:14:40 GMT
Spinosaurus being the strongest carnivore IS the worst theory By no means is that a bad theory at all, the old Spinosaurus model would of been the strongest land carnivore due to its sheer absolute muscle mass, and even the new quadruped model remains one of the strongest theropod (in ansolute not proportional terms) to date, weighing in at around 7-8 tons (most likely estimates). The worst theory would be somthing like a ferret being the strongest carnivore, going by your logic.
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SrSpinelli
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Post by SrSpinelli on Dec 29, 2014 11:16:18 GMT
Spinosaurus being the strongest carnivore IS the worst theory By no means is that a bad theory at all, the old Spinosaurus model would of been the strongest land carnivore due to its sheer absolute muscle mass, and even the new quadruped model remains one of the strongest theropod (in ansolute not proportional terms) to date, weighing in at around 7-8 tons (most likely estimates). The worst theory would be somthing like a ferret being the strongest carnivore, going by your logic. it was a bad theory, they only said that because he was big, and just that
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 29, 2014 11:26:40 GMT
By no means is that a bad theory at all, the old Spinosaurus model would of been the strongest land carnivore due to its sheer absolute muscle mass, and even the new quadruped model remains one of the strongest theropod (in ansolute not proportional terms) to date, weighing in at around 7-8 tons (most likely estimates). The worst theory would be somthing like a ferret being the strongest carnivore, going by your logic. it was a bad theory, they only said that because he was big, and just that In this case size would of been enough to prove that Spinosaurus was the strongest carnivorous dinosaur, as the old model was so much more massive than the next largest carnivores, which would mean that its muscle mass would of been larger in absolute terms. Even using the new quadraped model of Spinosaurus the theory isn't that inaccurate, as Spinosaurus still remains one of the largest carnivorous theropods at around 7-8 tons
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SrSpinelli
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Favourite Dinosaur: Tyrannosaurus Rex, UtahRaptor, Carnotaurus
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Rip and Tear. Untill it's done.
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Great White Shark, Komodo Dragons, Snake, Anaconda, Crocodile, Acrians
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Post by SrSpinelli on Dec 29, 2014 11:48:53 GMT
it was a bad theory, they only said that because he was big, and just that In this case size would of been enough to prove that Spinosaurus was the strongest carnivorous dinosaur, as the old model was so much more massive than the next largest carnivores, which would mean that its muscle mass would of been larger in absolute terms. Even using the new quadraped model of Spinosaurus the theory isn't that inaccurate, as Spinosaurus still remains one of the largest carnivorous theropods at around 7-8 tons size does not matters
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Dec 29, 2014 14:35:54 GMT
In this case size would of been enough to prove that Spinosaurus was the strongest carnivorous dinosaur, as the old model was so much more massive than the next largest carnivores, which would mean that its muscle mass would of been larger in absolute terms. Even using the new quadraped model of Spinosaurus the theory isn't that inaccurate, as Spinosaurus still remains one of the largest carnivorous theropods at around 7-8 tons size does not matters It is the pretty much the most deciding factor in 90% of animal confrontations actually. But if you meant the other thing:
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Post by es1001 on Dec 31, 2014 10:20:36 GMT
It's just, banter.
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Post by 2pac on Dec 31, 2014 20:10:48 GMT
Spinosaurus being the strongest carnivore IS the worst theory By no means is that a bad theory at all, the old Spinosaurus model would of been the strongest land carnivore due to its sheer absolute muscle mass, and even the new quadruped model remains one of the strongest theropod (in ansolute not proportional terms) to date, weighing in at around 7-8 tons (most likely estimates). The worst theory would be somthing like a ferret being the strongest carnivore, going by your logic. He never mentioned "land" in that statement, and the old Spinosaurus model is completely irrelevant. 7 tons are mentioned by Maganuco as apparently upper bounds, not lower ones. The mere fact Spinosaurus is not as robustly built puts it at disadvantage, given that it is more or less the same weight as more robustly-built, land-dwelling theropods.
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Jan 1, 2015 11:32:01 GMT
By no means is that a bad theory at all, the old Spinosaurus model would of been the strongest land carnivore due to its sheer absolute muscle mass, and even the new quadruped model remains one of the strongest theropod (in ansolute not proportional terms) to date, weighing in at around 7-8 tons (most likely estimates). The worst theory would be somthing like a ferret being the strongest carnivore, going by your logic. He never mentioned "land" in that statement, and the old Spinosaurus model is completely irrelevant. 7 tons are mentioned by Maganuco as apparently upper bounds, not lower ones. The mere fact Spinosaurus is not as robustly built puts it at disadvantage, given that it is more or less the same weight as more robustly-built, land-dwelling theropods. I assumed he meant land-based, as Spinosaurus is never called the strongest when talking in context of all carnivores, land and sea-based. Also the old Spinosaurus model isn't completely irrelevant, it hasn't been completely debunked just because a new widely agreed idea of an almost quadruped Spinosaurus has arrived on the scene. It may not be as robustly built as other carnivores of a similar size range, but that still doesn't prevent it from being at least one of the strongest land-based carnivores of all time (I know it was semi-aquatic, but it is far more comparable with other carnivorous theropods like Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus rather than sea-dwelling monsters like Megalodon, so thus it kinda fits that category).
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2pac
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Post by 2pac on Jan 1, 2015 21:36:10 GMT
He never mentioned "land" in that statement, and the old Spinosaurus model is completely irrelevant. 7 tons are mentioned by Maganuco as apparently upper bounds, not lower ones. The mere fact Spinosaurus is not as robustly built puts it at disadvantage, given that it is more or less the same weight as more robustly-built, land-dwelling theropods. I assumed he meant land-based, as Spinosaurus is never called the strongest when talking in context of all carnivores, land and sea-based. Also the old Spinosaurus model isn't completely irrelevant, it hasn't been completely debunked just because a new widely agreed idea of an almost quadruped Spinosaurus has arrived on the scene. It may not be as robustly built as other carnivores of a similar size range, but that still doesn't prevent it from being at least one of the strongest land-based carnivores of all time (I know it was semi-aquatic, but it is far more comparable with other carnivorous theropods like Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus rather than sea-dwelling monsters like Megalodon, so thus it kinda fits that category). ...It is. And the old model is outdated, the new material already doesn't equal the speculated anatomy from the 10+ ton, bipedal colossus that was assumed. I think you also forgot he said "strongest", not "one of the strongest".
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Jan 1, 2015 23:00:48 GMT
....It isn't. Nothing can be completely debunked in paleontology, where we always have to be open to new ideas and revisiting old ideas if they begin to be more recognised as factual in the scientific community. And I'm pretty sure Hartman has questioned the model's proportions already, so it isn't a completely accepted idea among paleontologists.
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2pac
I'm proceratosaurus and this name is temporary.
1,253
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Post by 2pac on Jan 1, 2015 23:34:19 GMT
....It isn't. Nothing can be completely debunked in paleontology, where we always have to be open to new ideas and revisiting old ideas if they begin to be more recognised as factual in the scientific community. And I'm pretty sure Hartman has questioned the model's proportions already, so it isn't a completely accepted idea among paleontologists. Sorry for not being clear enough, but "it is" referred to Spinosaurus being claimed as the strongest carnivore known (and I have actually seen that happening). And a lot of "facts" can actually be debunked in paleontology, and it happened a lot before. The idea is fairly accepted, and if we are to use specialist word as highly accurate, then why not bring up Ibrahim's response?
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ornitholestes
Yutyrannus
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Post by ornitholestes on Jan 5, 2015 22:13:16 GMT
People are not getting the importance of bulk right in this regard.
At equal mass, having a bulkier torso doesn’t equal having greater muscular power available. Indeed, a bulkier torso, especially an amphyplatyan one, is likely to be stiffer and rely more on passive support, so it might be less muscled and certainly less useful in actually excerting force (just compare a constrictor snake to a turtle and you’ll get what I mean). The torso is not a limb segment, its thickness is mostly determined by non-muscular tissue within the body cavity. It’s width or depth has little impact on muscle-crossections.
Where other large theropods are obviously stronger is the neck, where Spinosaurus is obviously stronger is the forelimb. Now, admittedly it doesn’t look good for the hindlimb muscularity in Spinosaurus (although for its size it was described as powerful), but earlier on one would definitely have had every right to conclude the same held true for the hindlimb and tail, and it might still hold true for the tail if it was used for swimming.
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2pac
I'm proceratosaurus and this name is temporary.
1,253
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Bald eagle
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Post by 2pac on Jan 6, 2015 0:41:41 GMT
Yes, although one could argue that a wider torso is more likely to carry a higher volume of internal organs, thus the body needing to bear more weight, and so requiring more strength, overall.
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