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Post by Theropod on Mar 24, 2016 21:02:24 GMT
themechabaryonyx789In theory, we all can agree cocaine is bad. In practice, no. Portugal made it legal and it's not a big problem there, people are using it very responsibly. Just make sure they have someone who can take care of them while they're doing it and add warnings to it, give responsible people an ID so they need it to buy drugs. Can't see how that would not work, after all, the ban on drugs didn't stop any suffering, did it? What's the point of a law if it fails in all of its promises?
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Mar 24, 2016 22:36:49 GMT
themechabaryonyx789 In theory, we all can agree cocaine is bad. In practice, no. Portugal made it legal and it's not a big problem there, people are using it very responsibly. Just make sure they have someone who can take care of them while they're doing it and add warnings to it, give responsible people an ID so they need it to buy drugs. Can't see how that would not work, after all, the ban on drugs didn't stop any suffering, did it? What's the point of a law if it fails in all of its promises? Fundamentally the drug still doesn't really do any good for anyone. It does have negative side-Effects on the body even from short term use. I would only legalise drugs for medical purposes personally.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 24, 2016 23:39:03 GMT
themechabaryonyx789So because it does "only harm", it should be illegal? I think that, my body, my rules. Don't want the state telling me what to do with my body. So what if I am comfortable with harming myself? Why not make suicide illegal as well? Same background. Make a good restriction system, even if it doesn't work at least we won't jail people for doing what they please with their bodies.
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Mar 25, 2016 1:34:06 GMT
The biggest thing for me is the effects on other people. Sitting next to a person smoking has almost the same effects as smoking the thing yourself.
If all drugs are legalized, it sure as hell better be with restrictions, and illegal in public. If people can chose what to do with their bodies, others can chose what not to do with their bodies, and many people don't want the drugs.
One thing is for sure in my opinion; drugs should never, ever, ever, ever, EVER be legal in public places.
I still hold they should just be illegal altogether anyway.
Alcohol is completely different though, but should also be limited in public.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 25, 2016 1:42:53 GMT
The biggest thing for me is the effects on other people. Sitting next to a person smoking has almost the same effects as smoking the thing yourself. That's why I proposed regulations. If all drugs are legalized, it sure as hell better be with restrictions, and illegal in public This. It could be in public for things like cannabis, though, as long as not near unwilling people. One thing is for sure in my opinion; drugs should never, ever, ever, ever, EVER be legal in public places. Cannabis could be smoked in public, though. Nothing wrong with it. I still hold they should just be illegal altogether anyway. Why is that so? Alcohol is completely different though, but should also be limited in public. What makes alcohol any different? The fact it's deadlier than several illegal drugs?
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Monolophosaurus
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Mar 25, 2016 1:47:46 GMT
The biggest thing for me is the effects on other people. Sitting next to a person smoking has almost the same effects as smoking the thing yourself. That's why I proposed regulations. If all drugs are legalized, it sure as hell better be with restrictions, and illegal in public This. It could be in public for things like cannabis, though, as long as not near unwilling people. One thing is for sure in my opinion; drugs should never, ever, ever, ever, EVER be legal in public places. Cannabis could be smoked in public, though. Nothing wrong with it. I still hold they should just be illegal altogether anyway. Why is that so? Alcohol is completely different though, but should also be limited in public. What makes alcohol any different? The fact it's deadlier than several illegal drugs? If we just ban them all then multiple problems will severely decrease. The fact that it in itself can't harm anyone else in public (drunk people can though), and only leads to nasty effects if used numerous times in quick succession, unlike other drugs that can harm you after one dose.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 25, 2016 2:23:59 GMT
Monolophosaurus"If we just ban them all then multiple problems will severely decrease." That's it? That's your solution to problems? The ban on drugs did not help anyone. It doesn't stop people from using drugs, but since it's an illegal market you can't expect them to be of high quality and this ends up resulting in drugs, like cocaine, for example, having other things added to them, making those drugs even more dangerous. It creates drug dealers who are armed just to protect their business from the police. Making drugs legal solves all of this. Overall, making drugs legal has more advantages and is a more libertarian option as well. "The fact that it in itself can't harm anyone else in public (drunk people can though), and only leads to nasty effects if used numerous times in quick succession, unlike other drugs that can harm you after one dose." Cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, so is LSD, psilocybin... Yet what you said includes those too. In fact, alcohol being listed as a drug is considered one of the most harmful ones. And the kind of thought you have makes it even worse. That's just one-sided, it's the way the state loves you to think since the US initally banned drugs just for the purpose of having a "reasonable" way of invading other countries.
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Monolophosaurus
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1,094
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captainjimmbob
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Mar 25, 2016 2:58:08 GMT
Drug bans decrease drug rates. The end. There is a simple solution to many of the "problems" you listed, just don't be a drug dealer. Problem solved, moving on.
Cool, a few drugs like cannabis are not as dangerous as alcohol. I'll concede a very small few illegal drugs should be legalized with restrictions. But alcohol is still less harmful than most drugs, and I retain that most should be completely illegal. It does no harm for them to be illegal.
Oh, *shudders* the evils of American propaganda! How dare they discourage people to use drugs! What is this madness?
I'm tired as hell, so I'm very irritable right now. Sorry if I was aggressive.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 25, 2016 3:42:55 GMT
Correction - drug bans do not decrease drug rates. Look at Portugal, their rates dropped after they legalized drugs. The Netherlands also got less users after making legal under certain circumstances. You are just being a conformist and agreeing with things the way they are, "just don't be a drug dealer", any reason not to be one? With unemployment being an issue it's easy to find good reasons to be one, no one is going to not be one simply because it can be bad. They need to take risks sometimes to survive. You don't solve things by saying "don't do this". We have been trying to do this for several years. We have been giving our patient the wrong medication for years and still wondering why it's not working. Alcohol is not less harmful than most drugs. It is more harmful than most. Source: Taylor, M.; Mackay, K.; Murphy, J.; McIntosh, A.; McIntosh, C.; Anderson, S.; Welch, K. (24 July 2012). "Quantifying the RR of harm to self and others from substance misuse: results from a survey of clinical experts across Scotland". BMJ Open 2 (4): e000774–e000774. doi:10.1136/bmjopen-2011-000774. Retrieved 8 October 2015.Out of these, only crystal meth, crack cocaine and heroin cause more personal harm than alcohol. Cocaine causes slightly less, while nicotine is ranked even lower than alcohol as well. On the social harm department, only heroin beats alcohol, and only by a slight amount. And yes, yes it does cause harm for them to be illegal. Portugal had armed drug dealers before the legalization of all drugs. Nowadays, with it being legal, not only do drugs come from a more reliable source, but no one has to kill for them because they are accessible. It's like making caffeine illegal, people would still seek it. The police would try to arrest those who use it illegally. Those people, however, don't want to be arrested, so they either get armed or try to escape and this often leads to shootings, but with caffeine being perfectly legal we can all get as much as we want of it. And it is also harmful, to an extent. Doesn't stop anyone from drinking coffee, despite the fact caffeine deaths have been reported before. We don't need to fear anyone when drugs are legal, we don't see drug dealers selling dangerously low quality drugs around when drugs are legal. It's harmful when you make it illegal because people will fight over it. And yes, joke about it as much as you want, you can think it's just a conspiracy theory if you want, but your innocent little government is in fact the first government that should disappear from the face of the Earth and if I had the power to abolish only one government, it would be US. It's basically a new Nazi Germany. They are responsible for at least some 15 or 20 million deaths in wars from Korea and Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan. And there's also Project MKUltra, also called the CIA's mind control program. They banned drugs to invade drug source countries with the excuse that they "need to protect American people" and even had propaganda just to demonize drugs. All of this to convince their people that it was okay for them to invade other countries. There is a documentary about this, I will try to find an English version of it. Here, some American propaganda to demonize drug use: Those are just a few, so while you are being sarcastic about the US being evil they totally love the fact you think that way. And no worries about aggressivity, I can sound pretty aggressive too sometimes.
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Post by thesporerex on Mar 25, 2016 10:32:20 GMT
>Drugs >US Imperialism
Unless you talk about the war on drugs or the CIA drug trade in the middle east then it is pretty irrelevant.
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Monolophosaurus
My favorite number in the alphabet is triangle.
1,094
May 26, 2014 20:39:12 GMT
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captainjimmbob
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Post by Monolophosaurus on Mar 25, 2016 13:39:25 GMT
Damn it, I just typed up a three paragraph reply and accidentally deleted it.
Well it was basically just me admitting defeat but also adding that I know the US government is corrupt, I just don't see how discouraging people away from things that will harm them is necessarily that bad--even if those posters you just used are entirely outrageous and over-exaggerate way too much. I can't help where I live and I'm pretty sure most countries get fed with propaganda too (even if the US is much more-so than most).
I'm not ever going to use drugs, so it is a decision that doesn't affect me (unless they somehow became legal in public, which I don't think will ever happen).
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Post by Theropod on Mar 25, 2016 13:57:56 GMT
>Drugs >US Imperialism Unless you talk about the war on drugs or the CIA drug trade in the middle east then it is pretty irrelevant. I am referring to these.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 25, 2016 14:10:37 GMT
Monolophosaurus"I just don't see how discouraging people away from things that will harm them is necessarily that bad" Well, it's certainly not good. There's nothing really bad about making drugs legal, and as I already explained, making them illegal causes more harm than just not letting people do what they want, it has a bit more to it than just that. "I'm pretty sure most countries get fed with propaganda too" Of course, some more, some less, but still. However, that doesn't make the US any better. "I'm not ever going to use drugs, so it is a decision that doesn't affect me" It affects you. With drugs being legal, you don't need to worry about drug-related shootings near your home. You don't have to worry about getting low quality drugs and maybe being legally punished for it, in case you ever change your mind; I used to think this way as well, I would never use cannabis, but right now I am interested in it. I want to try LSD and/or shrooms as well, and although mushrooms are legal here, LSD is not. Another fact: when people say that drugs like cannabis lead to other more dangerous drugs, they're getting to a misunderstood part of the whole thing. Cannabis does not lead to other drugs, but its absence might do that because the person won't find their dealer so easily, so once they find their dealer they might want to make their search worth it. They might end up buying something else, because it's like in a grocery store; you buy something new because the product you were searching for isn't available. This occurs much more often with drugs because they're illegal, they're harder to sell, and with this they end up being more expensive as well. So if drugs are legal, you might as well feel safer.
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Post by themechabaryonyx789 on Mar 29, 2016 12:24:05 GMT
themechabaryonyx789 So because it does "only harm", it should be illegal? I think that, my body, my rules. Don't want the state telling me what to do with my body. So what if I am comfortable with harming myself? Why not make suicide illegal as well? Same background. Make a good restriction system, even if it doesn't work at least we won't jail people for doing what they please with their bodies. What's the point of an economy and society if people are allowed easy access to means of harming themselves? Legalising harmful drugs is completely pointless, there should be efforts made to create a better more harmonious and functioning society than practically promoting use of harmful things on your body. Suicide is a different matter, as it is usually caused by poor help from the services etc. for people who are depressed.
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Post by Theropod on Mar 29, 2016 15:07:00 GMT
themechabaryonyx789 So because it does "only harm", it should be illegal? I think that, my body, my rules. Don't want the state telling me what to do with my body. So what if I am comfortable with harming myself? Why not make suicide illegal as well? Same background. Make a good restriction system, even if it doesn't work at least we won't jail people for doing what they please with their bodies. What's the point of an economy and society if people are allowed easy access to means of harming themselves? Legalising harmful drugs is completely pointless, there should be efforts made to create a better more harmonious and functioning society than practically promoting use of harmful things on your body. Suicide is a different matter, as it is usually caused by poor help from the services etc. for people who are depressed. Actually, there is a point. I've brought that up in this post, click here to read it."What's the point of an economy and society if people are allowed easy access to means of harming themselves?" Their body, their rights. This question just shows favoritisim towards the economy and puts it first rather than the right to do what we want to our bodies. The economy isn't as important as the right to do what you want to yourself without being punished for it. "there should be efforts made to create a better more harmonious and functioning society than practically promoting use of harmful things on your body" Making drugs legal has dropped criminal rates before. So it actually counts as one of the steps towards this society you want. I want that too, but so far we have seen different ways of reaching it.
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